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- Saer de Quincy, 1st Earl of Winchester (c. 1155 – 3 November 1219) was one of the leaders of the baronial rebellion against John, King of England, and a major figure in both the kingdoms of Scotland and England in the decades around the turn of the twelfth and thirteenth centuries.
Contents
1 Scottish Upbringing
2 Earl of Winchester
3 Magna Carta
4 The Fifth Crusade
5 Family
5.1 Issue
6 References
7 Sources
8 Background reading
9 External links
Scottish Upbringing
Although he was an Anglo-Norman, Saer de Quincy's father, Robert de Quincy, had married and held important lordships in the Scottish kingdom of his cousin King William the Lion. His mother, Orabilis, was the heiress of the lordship of Leuchars and through her Robert became lord over lands in Fife, Perth and Lothian (see below).[1]
Saer's own rise to prominence in England came partly through his marriage to Margaret, the younger sister of Robert de Beaumont, Earl of Leicester.[2] Earl Robert died in 1204, and left Margaret as co-heiress to the vast earldom along with her elder sister. The estate was split in half, and after the final division was ratified in 1207, de Quincy was made Earl of Winchester.[3]
Earl of Winchester
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Seal of Robert Fitzwalter (d.1235). So close was the alliance between both men that the seal shows the arms of Saer de Quincy (seven mascles 3,3,1) on a separate shield before FitzWalter horse, with FitzWalter's own arms on his own shield and on his horse's caparison.
Following his marriage, Winchester became a prominent military and diplomatic figure in England. There is no evidence of any close alliance with King John, however, and his rise to importance was probably due to his newly acquired magnate status and the family connections that underpinned it.
Saer seems to have developed a close personal relationship with his cousin, Robert Fitzwalter (died 1235). In 1203, they served as co-commanders of the garrison at the major fortress of Vaudreuil in Normandy. They surrendered the castle without a fight to Philip II of France, fatally weakening the English position in northern France.[4] Although popular opinion seems to have blamed them for the capitulation, a royal writ is extant stating that the castle was surrendered at King John's command, and both Winchester and Fitzwalter endured personal humiliation and heavy ransoms at the hands of the French.
In Scotland, he was perhaps more successful. In 1211 to 1212, the Earl of Winchester commanded an imposing retinue of a hundred knights and a hundred serjeants in William the Lion's campaign against the Mac William rebels, a force which some historians have suggested may have been the mercenary force from Brabant lent to the campaign by John.
Magna Carta
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Arms displayed by Earl Saer on his seal on Magna Carta. These differ from his arms used elsewhere but can also be seen in stained glass at Winchester Great Hall.
In 1215, when the baronial rebellion broke out, Robert Fitzwalter became the military commander, and the Earl of Winchester joined him, acting as one of the chief authors of Magna Carta and negotiators with John; both cousins were among the 25 guarantors of the Magna Carta.[5] De Quincy fought against John in the troubles that followed the sealing of the Charter, and, again with Fitzwalter, travelled to France to invite Prince Louis of France to take the English throne. He and Fitzwalter were subsequently among the most committed and prominent supporters of Louis's candidature for the kingship, against both John and the infant Henry III.[6]
The Fifth Crusade
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When military defeat cleared the way for Henry III to take the throne, de Quincy went on crusade, perhaps in fulfilment of an earlier vow. In 1219 he left to join the Fifth Crusade, then besieging Damietta.[7] While in the east, he fell sick and died. He was buried in Acre, the capital of the Kingdom of Jerusalem, rather than in Egypt, and his heart was brought back and interred at Garendon Abbey near Loughborough, a house endowed by his wife's family.
Family
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The family of de Quincy had arrived in England after the Norman Conquest, and took their name from Cuinchy in the Arrondissement of Béthune; the personal name "Saer" was used by them over several generations. Both names are variously spelt in primary sources and older modern works, the first name being sometimes rendered Saher or Seer, and the surname as Quency or Quenci.
The first recorded Saer de Quincy (known to historians as "Saer I") was lord of the manor of Long Buckby in Northamptonshire in the earlier twelfth century, and second husband of Matilda of St Liz, stepdaughter of King David I of Scotland by Maud of Northumbria. This marriage produced two sons, Saer II and Robert de Quincy. It was Robert, the younger son, who was the father of the Saer de Quincy who eventually became Earl of Winchester. By her first husband Robert Fitz Richard, Matilda was also the paternal grandmother of Earl Saer's close ally, Robert Fitzwalter.
Robert de Quincy seems to have inherited no English lands from his father, and pursued a knightly career in Scotland, where he is recorded from around 1160 as a close companion of his cousin, King William the Lion. By 1170 he had married Orabilis, heiress of the Scottish lordship of Leuchars and, through her, he became lord of an extensive complex of estates north of the border which included lands in Fife, Strathearn and Lothian.
Saer de Quincy, the son of Robert de Quincy and Orabilis of Leuchars, was raised largely in Scotland. His absence from English records for the first decades of his life has led some modern historians and genealogists to confuse him with his uncle, Saer II, who took part in the rebellion of Henry the Young King in 1173, when the future Earl of Winchester can have been no more than a toddler. Saer II's line ended without direct heirs, and his nephew and namesake would eventually inherit his estate, uniting his primary Scottish holdings with the family's Northamptonshire patrimony, and possibly some lands in France.
Issue
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Sometime between 1188 and 1193 de Quincy married Margaret, youngest daughter of Robert de Beaumont, 3rd Earl of Leicester.[2] By his wife Margaret de Beaumont, Earl Saer had:
Lora, who married Sir William de Valognes, Chamberlain of Scotland.
Arabella, who married Sir Richard Harcourt.
Robert (died 1217); before 1206 he married Hawise of Chester, 1st Countess of Lincoln, sister and co-heiress of Randolph de Blondeville, 4th Earl of Chester.
Roger, who succeeded his father as earl of Winchester (though he did not take formal possession of the earldom until after his mother's death).[8]
Robert de Quincy [de] (second son of that name; died 1257), who married Elen, daughter of the Welsh prince Llywelyn the Great.
Hawise, who married Hugh de Vere, 4th Earl of Oxford.
Mary, who married Hugh le Despenser (sheriff).
Janet, who married Dougall de Seton.
Peerage of England
New creation Earl of Winchester
1207–1219 Succeeded by
Roger de Quincy
References
Complete Peerage p.747
Grosseteste 2010, p. 65.
CP p.749
Poole 1993, p. 470.
Chisholm, Hugh, ed. (1911). "Winchester, Earls and Marquesses of" . Encyclopædia Britannica. 28 (11th ed.). Cambridge University Press. p. 703.
Carpenter 1990, p. 35.
Tout 1969, p. 13.
Maddicott 1994, p. 3.
Sources
Carpenter, David A. (1990). The Minority of Henry III. University of California Press.
Grosseteste, Robert (2010). The Letters of Robert Grosseteste, Bishop of Lincoln. Translated by Mantello, F.A.C.; Goering, Joseph. University of Toronto Press.
Maddicott, J. R. (1994). Simon de Montfort. Cambridge University Press.
Poole, Austin Lane (1993). From Domesday Book to Magna Carta, 1087-1216. Oxford University Press.
Tout, Thomas Frederick (1969). The History of England from the Accession of Henry III to the Death of Edward III, 1216-1377. Greenwood Press.
Background reading
"Winchester", in The Complete Peerage, 2nd ed., ed. G.E.C. et al., Vol.12ii. pp. 745–751
Sidney Painter, "The House of Quency, 1136-1264", Medievalia et Humanistica, 11 (1957) 3–9; reprinted in his book Feudalism and Liberty
Grant G. Simpson, "An Anglo-Scottish Baron of the Thirteenth century: the Acts of Roger de Quincy Earl of Winchester and Constable of Scotland" (Unpublished PhD Thesis, Edinburgh 1963).
Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America Before 1700 (7th Edition, 1992,), 58–60.
External links
Medieval Lands Project on Saher de Quincy
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Medieval Lands Project
SAHER [IV] de Quincy, son of ROBERT de Quincy & his first wife Orabilis of Mar ([1165/70]-Damietta 3 Nov 1219, bur Acre). "…Robertus de Quinci, Seierus de Quinci…" were the first two lay witnesses of the charter dated 1200 which records the foundation of Inchaffray Abbey by "Gilbertus filius Ferthead…comes de Stradern et…Matilidis filia Willelmi de Aubengni comitissa"[34]. "…Seier de Quinci…" subscribed the undated charter under which "Comes David frater regis Scottorum" founded Lindores Abbey[35]. "Seerus de Quinci" confirmed the donation of "Davac Icthar Hathyn" made by "matris mea" to St Andrew´s priory by undated charter witnessed by "…Roberto de Quincy patre meo…Constant et Patricio filiis Nesii avi mei…"[36]. He was created Earl of Winchester before 10 Feb 1207. "Seherus de Quency comes Wintonie" donated "ecclesiam de Gasc" to Inchaffray Abbey, for the souls of "patris nostri bone memorie Roberti de Quency et…matris nostre Orable et…Roberti de Quency primogeniti nostri et…Margarete uxoris nostre" by charter dated to [1210/13][37]. "Seherus de Quency comes Wintonie" donated "totam terram de Duglyn", held by "Nesus filius Willelmi avus meus" to Cambuskenneth priory, with the consent of "Robert filii mei", by undated charter[38]. He supported the barons against King John and was one of the 25 men chosen in Jun 1215 to enforce obedience of Magna Carta, being excommunicated by the Pope in Dec 1215. He went with Robert FitzWalter to invite Louis de France to England in early 1216, his lands being seized by King John as a consequence and granted to William Marshal, son of the Earl of Pembroke. He returned to the allegiance of King Henry III in Sep 1217 and his lands were restored to him 29 Sep 1217. "Saherus de Quinc[y] comes Wintonie" confirmed a donation of property "in territorio de Gask" to Inchaffray Abbey by charter dated to [1218][39]. "Seyerus de Quinci comes Wintonie" donated revenue from "molendino meo de Locres" to St Andrew´s priory, with the consent of "Rogeri filii et heredis mei", by undated charter, dated to [1217/18], witnessed by "Rogero de Quinci herede meo, Simone de Quinci persona de Louchres, Patricio filio Nesii…Simonis de Quinci"[40]. He joined the Crusade in 1219 and died at the siege of Damietta[41]. The necrology of Garendon abbey (Leicestershire) records that “dominus Saerus de Quyncy comes Wyntonie et Robertus filius Willielmi de Havercourt et Willielmus comes de Arundell” travelled to “Terram Sanctam” in 1219 and that Saher died on the journey “III Nov Nov” and was buried “apud Acres”, his heart being burned and later buried at Garendon[42]. The Annals of Dunstable record that “comes Wintoniæ” took the cross in 1219 but died, adding in a later passage that he died in 1220[43]. The Chronicle of Ralph of Coggeshall records the death in 1220 of "Saerus de Quenci comes Wintoniensis" while on pilgrimage to Jerusalem[44]. Matthew Paris records the death in 1220 of “Saerus de Quinci comes Wintoniensis”[45].
m (before 1190) MARGARET of Leicester, daughter of ROBERT de Beaumont Earl of Leicester & his wife Pernelle de Grantmesnil ([before 1172][46]-[12/15] Jan or 12 Feb 1235). A history of the foundation of St Mary´s abbey, Leicester names “Amiciam primogenitam…et Margaritam juniorem” as the two daughters of “Robertus” and his wife “Petronillam filiam Hugonis de Grantmenyl”, adding that Margaret married “Sayero de Quincy”[47]. "Seherus de Quency comes Wintonie" donated "ecclesiam de Gasc" to Inchaffray Abbey, for the souls of "patris nostri bone memorie Roberti de Quency et…matris nostre Orable et…Roberti de Quency primogeniti nostri et…Margarete uxoris nostre" by charter dated to [1210/13][48]. The Pipe Roll 1223 records “Margareta comitissa Wint” owing “ut Hawisia filia sua maritetur Hugoni f. et heredi R. de Veer comitis Oxon” in Essex/Hertfordshire[49]. A charter of King Edward I confirmed donations to Garendon Abbey among which by “Margareta…comitissa Wyntoniæ, soror Roberti comitis Leycestriæ”[50]. The necrology of the monastery of Ouche records the death "12 Jan" of "Margarita comitissa Wintonyæ"[51]. The necrology of Garendon abbey (Leicestershire) records the death “XVIII Kal Feb” of “Margareta comitissa Wintonie et mater...Rogeri de Quyncy”[52].
Saher [IV] & his wife had [eight] children:
1. ROBERT ([1187/90][53]-London 25 Apr 1217, bur Garendon). "Seherus de Quency comes Wintonie" donated "ecclesiam de Gasc" to Inchaffray Abbey, for the souls of "patris nostri bone memorie Roberti de Quency et…matris nostre Orable et…Roberti de Quency primogeniti nostri et…Margarete uxoris nostre" by charter dated to [1210/13][54]. The husband of Hawise of Chester was, according to the Complete Peerage, either Robert son of Robert de Quincy[55] (about whose existence there appears to be no other evidence) or Robert eldest son of Saher de Quincy Earl of Winchester[56]. However, the (undated) charter of Saher Earl of Winchester, relating to the grant of Bukby, Grantesset, Bradcham and Herdwick resolves the matter conclusively as it clearly states that Hawise was the wife of his eldest son Robert[57]. "Seherus de Quency comes Wintonie" donated "totam terram de Duglyn", held by "Nesus filius Willelmi avus meus" to Cambuskenneth priory, with the consent of "Robert filii mei", by undated charter[58]. Robert was excommunicated with his father in Dec 1215. The Annals of Waverley record the death in 1217 of “Robertus de Quinci, filius Seeri de Quinci”[59]. The necrology of Garendon abbey (Leicestershire) records the death “die Sancti Marci Evangeliste” 1264 of “dominus Rogerus de Quyncy comes Wintonie filius et heres...Saeri de Quyncy et Margarete sororis Roberti comitis Leyc” and his burial at Garendon[60]. He was accidentally poisoned through medicine prepared by a Cistercian monk[61]. m (before 1208) HAWISE of Chester, daughter of HUGH Earl of Chester & his wife Bertrade de Montfort ([1175/81][62]-[6 Jun 1241/3 Mar 1243). The Annales Londonienses record that "Ranulphus comes Cestriæ" had four sisters, of whom "quarta…Hawisia" married "Roberto de Quenci"[63]. Ctss of Lincoln [Apr 1231/1232] on the resignation of her brother of this earldom in her favour[64]. Robert & his wife had one child:
a) MARGARET (before 1208[65]-Hampstead Mar 1266, bur Clerkenwell, Church of the Hospitallers). The Annales Londonienses name "Margaretam…comitissa Lincolniæ" as the daughter of "Hawisia…de Roberto de Quency"[66]. The Annales Cestrienses record in 1221 that “Johannes constabularius Cestrie” married “filiam Roberti de Quenci neptam domini Ranulphi comitis Cestrie”[67]. A manuscript narrating the descent of Hugh Earl of Chester to Alice Ctss of Lincoln records that “Johanni de Laci constabulario Cestriæ” married “Roberto de Quincy…filiam Margaretam comitissam Lincolniæ”[68]. A manuscript history of the Lacy family records that “Johannes de Lacy primus comes Lincolniæ” married “Margaretam filiam Roberti Quincy comitis Wintoniæ nepotem Ranulphi comitis Cestriæ” after the death of his first wife[69]. The Annals of Tewkesbury record the marriage “circa Epiphaniam Domini” in 1241 of “Walterus Marescallus comes” and “comitissam Lincolniæ…Margeriam, uxorem quondam Johannis comitis Lincolniæ”[70]. A charter dated 28 Jun 1248 records that "Margaret late Countess of Lincoln…recovered her dower out of the lands in Ireland of W[alter] Marshall late Earl of Pembroke her husband" and that the dower was "taken out of the portions of the inheritance which accrued to William de Vescy and Agnes his wife, Reginald de Moun and Isabel his wife, Matilda de Kyme, Francis de Boun and Sibil his wife, William de Vallibus and Alienor his wife, John de Moun and Joan his wife, Agatha de Ferrers in the king´s custody, and Roger de Mortimer and Matilda his wife"[71]. A charter dated 26 May 1250 records the restoration of property, granted to "Margaret Countess of Lincoln", to "William de Vescy and Agnes his wife, Reginald de Moun and Isabel his wife, William de Fortibus and Matilda his wife, Francis de Boun and Sibil his wife, William de Vallibus and Alienor his wife, John de Moun and Joan his wife, Agatha de Ferrers in the king´s custody, Roger de Mortimer and Matilda his wife, and William de Cantilupe and Eva his wife"[72]. "Margery countess of Lincoln and Pembroke and Richard de Wilteshir and their heirs" were granted "a yearly fair at their manor of Chelebiry" dated 7 Jun 1252[73]. The Annals of Worcester record the death in 1266 of “Margareta comitissa Lincolniæ”[74]. The Annals of Winchester record the death “apud Hamstede” in 1266 of “Margareta comitissa Lyncollniæ”[75]. m firstly (1221, before 21 Jun) as his second wife, JOHN de Lacy, son of ROGER de Lacy & his wife Maud de Clare ([1192]-22 Jul 1240, bur Stanlaw, later transferred to Whalley). He was created Earl of Lincoln in 1232. m secondly (6 Jan 1242) WALTER Marshal Earl of Pembroke, son of WILLIAM Marshal Earl of Pembroke & his wife Isabel Ctss of Pembroke (after 1198-1245). m thirdly (before 7 Jun 1252) RICHARD de Wiltshire, son of ---.
2. ROGER de Quincy (-25 Apr 1264, bur [Brackley]). "Seyerus de Quinci comes Wintonie" donated revenue from "molendino meo de Locres" to St Andrew´s priory, with the consent of "Rogeri filii et heredis mei", by undated charter, dated to [1217/18], witnessed by "Rogero de Quinci herede meo, Simone de Quinci persona de Louchres, Patricio filio Nesii…Simonis de Quinci"[76]. "Rogerus de Quinci filius Seyeri comitis Wintonie" confirmed his father´s donation of a mill to St Andrew´s priory by undated charter, dated to [1217/18], witnessed by "Dño Seyero patre meo comite Wintonie, Symone de Quinci persona de Louchres, Patricio filio Nesii…Gilleberto clerico, Symonis de Quinci, Henrico clerico, Symonis de Quinci"[77]. He succeeded his father in 1219 as Earl of Winchester, but was not recognised as such until after his mother's death[78]. "Rogerius de Quinci" confirmed donations of land "in territorio de Gasc", where the men of "domini patris mei comitis Wintonie" pastured animals, to Inchaffray Abbey by charter dated to [1220], witnessed by "Gilberto comite de Stratherne, Roberto et Fergus filiis suis…"[79]. He succeeded his father-in-law in 1234 as hereditary Constable of Scotland, de iure uxoris. "Rogerus de Quency constabularius Scocie et Elena uxor eius filia quondam Alani de Galweya" recognised the rights of the church of Glasgow to "villam de Edeluestune" by undated charter[80]. "Rogerus de Quincy" donated "boscum nostrum de Gleddiswod" to Dryburgh monastery, for the souls of "nostre et Alyenore sponse mee et…Alani de Galwythya et Helene filie sue quondam sponse nostro", by undated charter[81]. John of Fordun´s Scotichronicon (Continuator) records the death in 1264 of "Rogerus de Quinci comes Wincestriæ"[82]. An undated writ "48 Hen III", after the death of "Roger de Quency earl of Winchester", records that he died "on the day of St Mark the Evangelist" and names "Henry de Lascy aged 14 on the day of the Epiphany next, is his heir"[83]. Another writ dated 2 Nov "55 Hen III", after the death of "Roger de Quency alias de Quinsy sometime earl of Winchester", records further details about his landholdings[84]. His earldom reverted to the crown on his death. m firstly ([before 1223]) ELLEN of Galloway, daughter of ALAN Lord of Galloway & his first wife --- de Lacy ([before 1205]-after 21 Nov 1245, bur Brackley). The Annales Londonienses name "Eleyn countesse de Wynton" as eldest of the three daughters of "la primere fille Davi" and "Aleyn de Gavei", naming "Margarete countesse de Ferreres et Eleyne la Zusche et la countesse de Bougham" as her three daughters[85]. Earl Roger's first marriage with the daughter of Alan of Galloway is recorded by Matthew Paris[86]. The Liber Pluscardensis records that the eldest daughter of "Alanus de Galway filius Rotholandi de Galway" married "Rogerus de Quinci comes Wintoniæ"[87]. The identity of Ellen’s mother as her father’s first wife is confirmed by her husband Roger de Quincy holding Kippax (linked to Alan’s first wife as shown above)[88]. Ellen’s birth and marriage dates are estimated from her daughter who married in [1238] having given birth soon after that marriage. "Elena quondam filia Alani de Galeweya" donated "villam de Edeluestune" to the church of Glasgow by undated charter[89]. "Rogerus de Quency constabularius Scocie et Elena uxor eius filia quondam Alani de Galweya" recognised the rights of the church of Glasgow to "villam de Edeluestune" by undated charter[90]. m secondly (before 5 Jun 1250) as her second husband, MATILDA de Bohun, widow of ANSELM Marshal Earl of Pembroke, daughter of HUMPHREY de Bohun Earl of Hereford and Essex & his wife Mathilde de Lusignan (-Groby, Lincolnshire 20 Oct 1252, bur Brackley80). A charter dated 19 Jan 1246 mandates the grant to "Matilda who was the wife of Anselm Marshall…[of] 60 librates of land in Ireland, for her maintenance until the king shall cause her dower to be assigned to her out of Anselm´s lands"[91]. Her death is recorded by Matthew Paris, who states that she was daughter of the Earl of Hereford but does not give her own name, that she was her husband's second wife[92]. m thirdly (before 5 Dec 1252) as her second husband, ELEANOR Ferrers, widow of WILLIAM de Vaux, daughter of WILLIAM de Ferrers Earl of Derby & his first wife Sibyl Marshal of Pembroke (-before 20 Oct 1274, bur Leeds Priory). The Chronicle of Tintern Abbey, Monmouthshire names "Agnes, secunda Isabella, tertia Matilda, quarta Sibilla, quinta Johanna, sexta Alianora, septima Agatha" as the seven daughters of "Willielmo de Ferrers comiti Derbiæ" and his wife "quarta filia…Willihelmi Marescalli…Sibilla", adding that "Alianora sexta filia" was "comitissa de Wintonia" and died childless[93]. A charter dated 26 May 1250 records the restoration of property, granted to "Margaret Countess of Lincoln", to "William de Vescy and Agnes his wife, Reginald de Moun and Isabel his wife, William de Fortibus and Matilda his wife, Francis de Boun and Sibil his wife, William de Vallibus and Alienor his wife, John de Moun and Joan his wife, Agatha de Ferrers in the king´s custody, Roger de Mortimer and Matilda his wife, and William de Cantilupe and Eva his wife"[94]. Her second marriage is confirmed by the Annals of Ireland which record that “Sibilla comitissa de Ferreys” had seven daughters (in order) “quinta, Elianora de Varis, quæ fuit uxor comitis Wintonie…”[95]. Matthew Paris records her husband's remarriage soon after the death of his second wife, but does not name his third wife[96]. "Rogerus de Quincy" donated "boscum nostrum de Gleddiswod" to Dryburgh monastery, for the souls of "nostre et Alyenore sponse mee et…Alani de Galwythya et Helene filie sue quondam sponse nostro", by undated charter[97]. She married thirdly (1267) as his second wife, Roger de Leyburn. King Edward I ordered the the escheator of Ireland to take all the lands of the deceased "Alianora widow of Roger de Quency earl of Winchester" into the hands of the king by charter dated 25 Oct 1274[98]. Earl Roger & his first wife had three children:
a) MARGARET de Quincy ([before 1223]-before 12 Mar 1281). The Annales Londonienses name "Margarete countesse de Ferreres et Eleyne la Zusche et la countesse de Bougham" as the three daughters of "Eleyn countesse de Wynton"[99]. A charter dated 3 Dec 1274 records the homage of "Margaret de Ferariis countess of Derby, eldest daughter and one of the heirs of Roger de Quency earl of Wynton" for her part of the lands "lately held in dower by Alianora de Vaux late countess of Wynton widow of the said Roger"[100]. Inquisitions after a writ "9 Edw I" following the death 15 Apr of "Margaret de Ferrariis countess of Derbeye" name her son “William de Ferrariis...”[101]. m ([1238]) as his second wife, WILLIAM de Ferrers, son of WILLIAM de Ferrers Earl of Derby & his wife Agnes of Chester (-May 1254, bur Merevale Abbey). He succeeded his father in 1247 as Earl of Derby.
b) ELLEN de Quincy (-before 20 Aug 1296). The Annales Londonienses name "Margarete countesse de Ferreres et Eleyne la Zusche et la countesse de Bougham" as the three daughters of "Eleyn countesse de Wynton", naming "Roger la Zusche" as son of "Eleyne la Zusche" and "de Roger, Aleyn"[102]. A charter dated 3 Dec 1274 records the homage of "Elena la Zusche another daughter and heir of Roger [de Quency earl of Wynton]" for her part of the lands "lately held in dower by Alianora de Vaux late countess of Wynton widow of the said Roger"[103]. Inquisitions after a writ 20 Aug "24 Edw I", following the death of "Elena la Zousche...", name “Alan la Suches [...son of Sir Roger de la Suche] aged 24 [...and more...aged 28 at the feast of St. Giles last] is her next heir” and record “Oliver la Suches” doing the service of 1 knight in Disard, Strahon and Lokeris, Fifeshire[104]. m ALAN [II] la Zouche [Justiciar of Ireland], son of ROGER [I] la Zouche & his wife Margaret --- (-killed in battle London 10 Aug 1270).
c) ELIZABETH de Quincy . The Annales Londonienses name "Margarete countesse de Ferreres et Eleyne la Zusche et la countesse de Bougham" as the three daughters of "Eleyn countesse de Wynton"[105]. A charter dated 3 Dec 1274 records the partition of the lands "lately held in dower by Alianora de Vaux late countess of Wynton widow of the said Roger" agreed by "Alexander Comyn earl of Buchan and Elizabeth his wife the third daughter of Roger [de Quency earl of Wynton]" for her part of the lands[106]. m ALEXANDER Comyn Earl of Buchan, son of WILLIAM Comyn Earl of Buchan & his wife Margaret Ctss of Buchan (-before 6 Apr 1290).
3. HAWISE ([1200/12]-3 Feb after 1263, bur Earl's Colne). "Margaret countess of Winchester" made a fine for the marriage of "Hawise her daughter…to Hugh, son and heir of R. de Vere, formerly earl of Oxford", dated [Feb] 1223[107]. Her birth date range is estimated based on her having given birth to her son in [1240], although it seems unlikely that she would have been much older than her husband. The Pipe Roll 1223 records “Margareta comitissa Wint” owing “ut Hawisia filia sua maritetur Hugoni f. et heredi R. de Veer comitis Oxon” in Essex/Hertfordshire[108]. m (after 11 Feb 1223) HUGH de Vere Earl of Oxford, son of ROBERT de Vere Earl of Oxford & his wife Isabel de Bolebec ([1210]-before 23 Dec 1263, bur Earl's Colne).
4. LORETA . The Complete Peerage names “Lorette m William de Valoynes of Panmure, co. Forfar, chamberlain of Scotland” as sister of Roger de Quincy Earl of Winchester but does not cite the corresponding source[109]. The primary source which confirms her parentage and marriage has not yet been identified. m WILLIAM de Valoignes of Panmure, co. Forfar, Chamberlain of Scotland, son of PHILIP de Valoignes & his first wife --- (-1219).
5. [--- de Quincy . Her parentage and marriage are suggested by the order dated 3 Feb 1223 under which King Henry III delivered "to Roger de Quency...the ward of the land of Sibilla de Valeines in Torpenno...the custody of which pertains to Roger by reason of Eustace de Stuteville, son and heir of said Sibilla, being in ward of Roger”[110]. Roger de Quincy Earl of Winchester was the brother of Loreta, wife of William de Valoignes (see above), who was the older brother of Sibylla. However, that relationship would not have justified Roger’s wardship of Sibylla’s minor son after she died. Many examples have been noted of a father marrying, as his second wife, the sister of the wife of his son and this may be another such case. m as his second wife, PHILIP de Valoignes, son of son of ROGER de Valognes & his wife Agnes --- (-5 Nov 1215, bur Melrose Abbey).]
6. ROBERT ([1217/19]-Aug 1257). The Complete Peerage names him as younger brother of Roger de Quincy Earl of Winchester but does not cite the corresponding source[111]. The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified. He is named “Roberto [de Quinci]” in the Annals of Dunstable when recording his marriage[112]. His birth date range is suggested on the assumption that he was born after the death of his older brother also called Robert, although his mother would have been over 45 years old at the time. m (1237 before 5 Dec) as her second husband, HELEN of Wales, widow of JOHN "the Scot" Earl of Huntingdon and Chester, daughter of LLYWELLYN ap Iorwerth Fawr ("the Great") Prince of Wales & his second/third wife Joan [illegitimate daughter of John King of England] (-1253 before 24 Oct). The Annals of Dunstable record that “Johannes comes Cestriæ” died in 1237 and “eius uxor…filia Lewelini” married “Roberto [de Quinci]” against her father´s wishes[113]. A writ after the death of "Eleanor, sometime the wife of John Earl of Chester", dated "the eve of St Martin 38 Hen III", records the "partition of her lands between Si J. de Bayllol, Robert de Brus, and Henry de Hasting, the heirs of the said earl"[114]. Robert & his wife had three children:
a) ANNE . The primary source which confirms her parentage has not yet been identified. A nun.
b) JOAN de Quincy (-25 Nov 1284). An undated writ "48 Hen III", after the death of "Roger de Quency earl of Winchester", records that "Joan, wife of Humphrey de Boum the younger of full age, and Hawis, within age, daughters of the late Robert de Quency" were his heirs in the manor of "Styventon alias Steventon [Bedford]"[115]. A writ dated 15 Dec "12 Edw I", after the death of "Joan late the wife of Humphrey de Boun alias de Bohun", records that she died "on Thursday the feast of St Katherine 12 Edw I" and that "Hawis her sister, late the wife of Baldwin Wake, is her next heir and of full age"[116]. m as his second wife, HUMPHREY [VI] de Bohun, son of HUMPHREY [V] de Bohun Earl of Hereford and Essex & his first wife Maud de Lusignan (-Beeston Castle, Cheshire 27 Oct 1265, bur Combermere Abbey).
c) HAWISE ([1250]-before 27 Mar 1285). An undated writ "48 Hen III", after the death of "Roger de Quency earl of Winchester", records that "Joan, wife of Humphrey de Boum the younger of full age, and Hawis, within age, daughters of the late Robert de Quency" were his heirs in the manor of "Styventon alias Steventon [Bedford]"[117]. A writ dated 15 Dec "12 Edw I", after the death of "Joan late the wife of Humphrey de Boun alias de Bohun", records that she died "on Thursday the feast of St Katherine 12 Edw I" and that "Hawis her sister, late the wife of Baldwin Wake, is her next heir and of full age"[118]. m (before 5 Feb 1268) as his second wife, BALDWIN Wake, son of HUGH Wake & his wife Joan de Stuteville ([1237/38]-before 10 Feb 1282).
7. JOHN . He is named in the Brackley charters[119]. His position in the order of birth of his siblings is unknown, but he may have been older than his brother Robert (the younger) if the speculation about the latter's date of birth (see above) is correct.
8. ORABILIS . A manuscript relating to Ranton Priory, Staffordshire records that “Ricardo de Harecourt” married “Orabillam sororem Rogeri de Quinci”, and lists their descendants[120]. m RICHARD [I] de Harcourt, son of WILLIAM [I] de Harcourt & his wife Alice Noel.
[Source: http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%
20MEDIEVAL2.htm#RobertQuincydied1217]
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1155 - 1219 (64 years)